The Friendzone is a Sexist Myth

30 Jan

by Erin Riordan

The Friendzone isn’t real. The idea that every “Nice Guy” is owed sex or a romantic relationship by his female friends is ridiculous. And if you think that’s not what Friendzoning is about, it absolutely is.

The movie Just Friends perhaps explains friendzoning best with the line, “See when a girl decides that you’re her friend, you’re no longer a dating option. You become this complete non-sexual entity in her eyes, like her brother, or a lamp.”

Or Urban Dictionary with, “When you are expected to support a girl you really like while she searches for a smarter, richer, or more handsome boyfriend. There is little you can do to get out without feeling like a dick. All in all, one of the meanest things girls do, whether they mean it or not.”

To some degree, the assumption of every guy claiming to be “friendzoned” is that if they indicate an interest in one of their friends, she is in some way obligated to return the interest, and reward it with a relationship or sex. This assumption is problematic for a whole host of reasons, but most in that it ignores choice. Everyone has the right to say “Yes” or “No” to someone’s romantic or sexual interest. There is no obligation to return interest, and if a person rejects you, it does not make them an awful person. Especially when that person is your friend.

I understand that rejection sucks. It hurts and it’s shitty when someone you like, want to have a relationship with, want to have sex with, etc. doesn’t return that interest. However, no one is obligated to be interested in you or want those things with you. While sex may very well be a human need, it is not something anyone has a right to, and thus we are not “owed” it.

Underlying the promulgation of friendzoning is the idea that a female friend who rejects her guy friend’s advances is a bad person, and is a bad person in part because she sees her friend as just that-a friend. As a brilliant person on the Internet wrote, “Friendzoning is bullshit because girls are not machines that you put kindness coins into until sex falls out.” This line wonderfully highlights the inherent sexism in friendzoning. That women should in any way be obligated to reciprocate sexual or romantic interest completely undermines the notion of women as autonomous people with the right to make their own decisions, and especially the right to make their own decisions about romantic relationships and sex.

No person is ever obligated to return romantic interest. That we penalize and antagonize women who reject men interested in them is sexist, and, to beat a dead horse, stands against the idea that women are equal.

If a guy determines he is interested in a woman, there are a few obvious courses of action. If he has just met her, he can indicate his interest in her. At that point, it is the woman’s choice to either return his interest or to reject him. If a guy doesn’t realize his interest in a woman until they are already friends, he can tell her how he feels. There is nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is to react to rejection by that friend by calling her a slut or a bitch and complaining about how he is just a “nice guy” unfairly trapped in the friendzone.

The now-defunct tumblr, niceguysofOKCupid, documented this phenomenon of men behaving badly after being rejected by a female friend. (Note: I do take issue with many of the privacy implications of this tumblr, however, it provides ample evidence of the “Nice Guy” phenomenon and thus I’m referencing it). Profile after profile showed self-described “nice guys” ranting about “bitch women who always talk about wanting a nice guy and then go for the asshole.” Many news sites collected highlights from this tumblr showing men proclaim, “[I am] a really really nice guy” and then answer questions like ‘Would you ever film a sexual encounter without your partner knowing?’ with, “I’m not sure.” Hint: If you’re not sure whether or not you would film a sexual encounter without your partner’s consent, you’re not a nice guy, you’re an ASSHOLE.

Another disturbing example is the man who describes himself as, “a scientist, a philosopher, an engineer, storyteller, but above all else what I truly am is a gentleman,” and answers the question ‘Do you feel there are any circumstances in which a person is obligated to have sex with you?’ with a “Yes.” The number of men featured on niceguysofOKCupid who answer that question in the affirmative is astoundingly high, and something I find deeply disturbing and upsetting. There are NO CIRCUMSTANCES under which a person is obligated to have sex. That is what consent is all about. Everyone has the right to say “Yes” or “No” to any sexual encounter, and everyone has the right to give, or not give, consent and to have that decision be respected. When consent is violated then a person has been sexually assaulted or raped. No man who disrespects consent or the idea of consent is a gentleman or “Nice Guy.”

This sort of answer happens again and again with these so-called “Nice Guys” claiming to be friendzoned. One friendzoned gentleman (his description, not mine) answers the question, ‘Someone is drunkenly flirting with you. You know that with a sober mind this person would never engage in casual sex, but now it seems that they’re willing. What do you do?’ with “Take advantage of the situation.” Taking advantage of someone who is drunk and unable to give consent is sexual assault, end of story. The number of friendzoned men who fundamentally misunderstand sex, consent, and choice is ridiculous, and highlights the fact that friendzoning is based on the idea that men are owed sex and women are the people who have to give it to them.

Beyond that, friendzoning suggests that all women are good for is sex. When a man laments the three years he wasted as a friend of a woman, only to be romantically rejected at the end of it all, he invalidates the idea that this woman might have any other worth beyond sex.  The reward of being someone’s friend is not sex, it is friendship. If you are actually this person’s friend then their friendship is a really awesome reward.

As friendzoning gets an increasing amount of attention the dialogue around friendzoning has begun to change. The voices that recognize that women are people worthy of friendship and worthy of having their choices respected are beginning to dominate the conversation, and are delegitimizing the friendzoning phenomenon. Hopefully with this dialogue shift we can see the death of the “Nice Guy,” and focus instead on the men in our lives who are truly awesome people worthy of friendship, and if both parties desire, more.




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52 Responses to “The Friendzone is a Sexist Myth”

  1. Kurlykat February 2, 2013 at 11:27 pm #

    Honestly, I have to say I’m slightly appalled by this article. You’ve taken a few issues that seem to make you quite outraged and have just ranted. Now normally, I wouldn’t care since that’s pretty much what blogs are. However, I was under the impression that this site was actually being edited and had real content. You seem to be slightly confused about the idea of friendzoning, not that I’m an expert. Let me put it this way, it isn’t necessarily that people get pissed off because they no longer have a chance to fuck or date (that could be the case, but really don’t stereotype). Most of the time, and if you actually talk to people who have been friendzoned you’d understand this, people get upset because they are genuinely interested. Getting friendzoned is like getting dumped before you’ve been given the chance. It’s not about fucking around. “To some degree, the assumption of every guy claiming to be “friendzoned” is that if they indicate an interest in one of their friends, she is in some way obligated to return the interest, and reward it with a relationship or sex.” That, is not true. Also, friendzoning isn’t preempitve. It’s not like you have to start out as friends, you just want to end up there. Also, I understand you’re frustrated with what seems to you to be inherent asshole-ery of these “Nice Guys” on OkCupid, but I also need you to take a minute and realize that 1. they answered truthfully and 2. you’re looking at a self selected group. Honestly, I think it’s time you be honest with yourself, and especially those guys around you, because there’s probably more of them in your life that would “film a sexual encounter without your partner knowing” than you realize. And one last thing, for a feminist blog, this got real heteronormative. You actually think any of the behaviors you described are restricted straight men? Thanks for the article.

    • karen A. (@Betsuni_chan) May 4, 2013 at 5:21 am #

      Hello Kurlykat.

      Well, I´m not the writer of this article and I not think on my self as a Femenist, but I agree with this article in specific. I think the point of view of a woman and a man could be different in some aspect, like the Friend-zone.

      I do not if a have bad luck with guys or there are a lot of assholes in my town, but I have meet a lot of “nice guys” who I think on them as my friends and when the time come, they confess to me and I turn them down. They say think to me like “everybody expect we will together” or “You can´t find someone better that I ´m” or ” I do a lot of thing for you” (I must recall that “those things” he did for me, I NEVER, but NEVER, ask him to did it). So they gone, sometimes they said mean thing (I can understand them) and take his space to think (I understand that too) but most of the case they stop of being your friend. Is a little ironic, cause you wasn´t be they girlfriend because friendship is more something important that have a partner. The friend-zone is not something painful only for the guy, the gilrs suffer to. No girl I ever meet thinks in their male-friends with sexual intention, friend are not for fuck, and when you discover or know that you friend look at you with this intention is awful. When you discover that your friends are looking you ass when “they think” you don´t look at them, is like betray us confidence. Well, at last in my case. I don´t know other girl cases.

      Every person need a friend for the contrary sex who you don´t want have sex with. Is a basic need! The fact that guys make a big fuss about this topic and, maybe not in you case but in a lot of another peoples cause, blame or make fun of the girls because She wait for some one who fulfill their expectation of a boyfriend.

      Welll the next is not exactly the topic but is related. Even between women, exist this myth that you should be with the guy who is nicest to you rather that the guy you really like. My grandma says “If you love them or not, is not important, the important thing is that they love you because they never will hurt you” (it sound kind of strange, sorry english isn´t my first language so this is kind of the inaccurate translate). Don´t you think is a little sad? Why women have to conform they selves to have as a partner a some one “that take care of them but is not sexual attractive”? The guys never fall for the nice girl who looks for their attention and love them the most, so… Why girl must Do it?

      So, maybe a little unnecessary point of view, the friend-zone is a important topic this days because the women have understand THAT the world is full of people, and between a million and thousands of person around the planet some where must be a guy that can be nice and sexual attractive. With this change of view, more women have the freedom to chose their partner not in base of money (most of the guy always thing that if you do not chose them, is because you are interested in some one who have more money, in this age is not more a important fact because women can work now, so…you know, you can earn money) or the urgency of get marry with the nicest guy you know because you have living a hell in you house (well actually, this is still happening but I expect it didn´t often like before in some contries). Now woman, with the change bring it by feminist, can take their time to chose the guy they like the most.

      Women know what we need, we do not need angry guys told us what we are looking for. I hate when guys are constantly says thinks like “I´m the guy you have ever asked for, but you don´t like me, so you don´t know ´what you want and you are stupid for do not love me”. Really is aweful and mean.

      And… Well this is my point of view. I wish this post could help you to understand Why, I BELIVE, the author of this blog wrote this article of how women Some Women see the friend-zone. And sorry for the haft- asse answer, but english is not my first langueage so was a little bit difficult to write this. Have a nice Nigth/day.

      • blablah May 20, 2013 at 9:31 am #

        Im not sure where this opinion came from that friend zone is a place where men arrive after they have become friends with a girl soley for the intrest of having sex with them, and do nice and kind and caring things for them soley for the purpose of haveing sex with them or that such kindness are in exhcange for potential sexual favors

        maybe that happens some times,

        Othere times though a man sees a girl’s smile from accors the park a befriends her only with the intention of being able to see this smiile and does everything in his power to keep her smileing in doing so he falls in love with her smile and he becomes an expert at makeing it appear he doesnt give a shit if shell ever have sex with him as long as he can keep her smiling.

        But she keeps dating people who are beneath because she is actualluy damaged as a person men who disrespect woman because they wont have sex with them never loved them to begin with and declare that a man who is hurt because he is rejected by woman devalues her as person because all he wants from her is sex is sexist It suggest that men only want sex from woman and then when aman loves a woman for real it is simply reuduced to sexual impusles

        the patriachy is so deep that it even convinces feminist that a man loveing a woman means he just wants to have sex with her

        Sex is a bonus for someone you love its not even neccesar. You can have romantic feelings for someone and express them with out being physcial with them. Guess what thats how all relationships end up eventuall married couples stop haveing sex at some point but they dont stop loveing eachother.

        Get of you man hatting high horse and accept that men can be hurt when woman continue to date men who do not treat themn the way he wants to treat her the way he thing she deserves to be treated without disrepsecting woman.

        Im sick of being reduced animal by a feminist when i express that i have been told by a girl that i love that it will never happen

        heres the truth to any bros that are listeng if you really love her and she keeps dating loosers> Dont give up stay her friend be there for her because the friendzone is something that happens between young men and woman but eventually woman and men grow up and think think about that friend who has always been there for them alot differantly when they are olde physcial prefrences change appearances change at some point the physcial becomes alot less relavanrt then the emotional just stand by your friend show them youll always be there no matter what, eventuall they will come around, and if they dont who the fuck cares its there loss your an amazing person if they cant see that its not because they are bad person its because they are damaged beyond repair

    • Alyssa June 1, 2013 at 4:07 am #

      Listen, I agree this post misses the point in some ways too, but the idea of the “friend zone” as it is commonly understood is an idiotic, delusional myth. There’s no such thing as the “friend zone,” it’s called she was never actually attracted to him in the first place. His “friendship” isn’t what caused her to reject him, it’s the simple fact that she’s not attracted to him. Guys who can’t handle accepting that fact are always the ones that use this moronic phrase.

      • Sneeben July 10, 2013 at 3:10 pm #

        “But she keeps dating people who are beneath because she is actualluy damaged as a person men who disrespect woman because they wont have sex with them never loved them to begin with”

        How do you know? Why do you not trust the girl’s judgement? I have been in the situation of being the girl who rejects her male friend several times, yet I’m sorry but NONE of my boyfriends have been beneath me, and I am not a damaged person. I can look after myself, thank you very much. I do not need a self-appointed knight in shining armour to save me from myself.

        Thankfully my male friends have been more intelligent and understanding than you, and have not rejected me as a friend after I rejected their advances.

  2. freakflag333 May 3, 2013 at 12:39 am #

    This article was fucking awesome. Loved everything about it. So much.

  3. Lucas May 16, 2013 at 4:14 pm #

    Wow. I never realized that this is what the “friend zone” was. As a guy, I understood that, when you express interest in a friend who is a girl, and she doesn’t reciprocate that attraction, but wants to remain friends, that that is the friend zone. I have had that happen, and I not only respected her choice, but we became better friends as a result. It never occurred to me to be nice to a girl or become her friend for sex or a relationship. It f*cking pisses me off that guys would feel so entitled, and to be so manipulative.

  4. t June 7, 2013 at 11:11 pm #

    No sane man should ever pretend to be a girls friend ever, why work for someone and not get paid?

    • Michael November 20, 2013 at 10:55 pm #

      100% agree with you

  5. Charles July 13, 2013 at 6:54 am #

    This is how it goes for ‘noice guise’

    But yeah I am pretty much with you. The only cases of Friend Zone actually being a thing is when a girl purposely leads a guy on without ever turning him down or even letting him know they aren’t interested, never telling him what the situation is (“Oh I’m just confused at the moment” “I would go out with you but I’m not sure I’m ready for a relationship”) and then go tell everyone they know that they have absolutely no interest. Everybody but the poor guy that may like her… then he gets hurt when he finally finds out she had no interest the entire time. A lot of guys are too socially inept to take hints or to read between the lines, so it ends badly when they get fooled like that.

    Like everything it’s both genders’ responsibilities to treat each other properly- it’s on guys and girls who wrong equally.

  6. Joe July 14, 2013 at 7:06 am #

    Ok, I see the point your making here and I agree to an extent but I also have some issues with what you are saying.

    Allow me to address this issue in the form of a scenario. In this scenario I have an actual date with a woman who might actually want to have a long term relationship with me. However, my female friend is having an issue, her boyfriend just dumped her or something like that and she wants someone to talk to. I already know that she has no romantic feelings for me but if I don’t cancel my date for a friend in trouble then I’m a jerk. If I cancel the date then I could potentially miss out on finding my soulmate. It’s a lose- lose situation.

    What do you call that other than the friend zone biting me in the ass?

    • Ashley September 27, 2013 at 9:01 pm #

      It’s called an inability to say no.

    • Emma October 14, 2013 at 4:31 pm #

      Okay I’m responding to this comment very late, but I would suggest going on the date. I have been in a similar situation, but a good friend would support your quest for love and wait a little for the crying on shoulder episode. However, what does this have to do with the content of this blogpost?

  7. Anna July 15, 2013 at 9:32 am #

    The friend-zone isn’t sexist. I know plenty of women who have been friend-zoned by men, likewise I know plenty of men who have been friend-zoned by women.

  8. Joe July 15, 2013 at 12:16 pm #

    “Hint: If you’re not sure whether or not you would film a sexual encounter without your partner’s consent, you’re not a nice guy, you’re an ASSHOLE”

    That’s a real nice strawman you set up for yourself. Have fun burning it because what you are describing does not in any way represent a real nice guy. That’s the real problem. Assholes who have co opted the title nice guy which ruins it for the rest of us.

    Also, I agree that most of the time the whole frienzone argument is bull. There is always an exception. How about a woman who tell a guy she just wants to be friends but whenever he tries to get a girlfriend she constantly comes up with fake emergencies or somehow all the women I pick “aren’t good enough for me”. At least according to her. This is because some women actually do friend zone guys not because they aren’t attracted to him or don’t want a real relationship. This is because they want the REAL nice guy to stuck around as her fallback guy.

    Is that fair?

    Why in the name if all that is holy isn’t she just honest?

    Honesty. That brings me to my next point. Women, you know pretty much right away whether or not we are boyfriend/ husband material. So why do you wait so long to tell us?

    Every minute you don’t tell us that you don’t have those type of feelings for us is a minute we could have used to find our soulmate.

    That is all….for now

  9. puahate August 7, 2013 at 12:01 am #

    The only reason guys are “friend-zoned” is because girls are repulsed by their FACE. 6/10 girls expect chiseled dark haired olive skinned male models. Any guy is willing to bang a butterface with a slim body (All a girl has to do is loose weight) Whereas guys are limited by their genetics. Girls dont care about personality and humor. You can’t talk your way into a girls pants if you have an NW2 hairline big forehead),blonde hair, and a pink facial complexion. Guys are victims of poor genetics.

    • Megan November 21, 2013 at 11:19 am #

      So you’re telling me men don’t expect stick thin but somehow still have big boobs, blonde, extremely attractive women?
      It’s science and evolution that makes us more likely to be attracted to attractive people. But EVERYONE finds someone who they find attractive who reciprocates.
      To claim men are the victim because of bad genetics is false. A proportion of both men AND women have bad genetics.
      Stop making up statistics and go and find someone who likes YOU not your face/physique. For both men and women, these are the people worthy of being your partner, not those who judge a person based solely on looks alone.

  10. lori August 8, 2013 at 12:56 pm #

    You do realize girls use this term too, right? Are they also being sexist?

  11. Author_Unknown August 14, 2013 at 3:46 am #

    I found this blog post by following a wikipedia link and what infuriates me the most about the feminist response to the term “friendzone” is the stupid idea that it is gender specific. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. To be “friend zoned” is to be rejected romantically by a someone you have a platonic relationship with. I may be a guy and not only have I been *friend zoned* by women, but I have “friend zoned” women as well. This is not a gender issue, it is a dating issue. And it all boils down to an unpleasant thing that happens to each and every one of us with any interest in non-platonic relationships: rejection. You read what I said. Rejection is a part of life and it knows no boundaries of sex, gender, or sexuality. You can like someone as a person and enjoy hanging out with them and yet still not want to have sex with them. At the same time, you often cannot control how you feel towards others but merely if and how you express those feelings. Being rejected by a friend really does hit closer to home than being rejected by a stranger. The way I usually deal with it is to discontinue the friendship because it’s just too awkward when you let them know how you feel only to discover they don’t feel the same way about you. Think on that for a bit.

  12. elotoham August 31, 2013 at 10:33 pm #

    what is wrong with someone feeling upset that a friend that they have feelings for does not like them, every one knows the feeling of wanting a relationship with someone that just wants to be friends. im completely against sexism, but why do feminists have to perseice so much of what men do as sexism to the point where alot of feminists are sexist them self. im a very big beleiver in feminism but not it an idea where women have the right to be sexist to men equally with men to women.,

  13. Space Jesus September 1, 2013 at 9:27 am #

    To me, coming from you, friend is a four letter word.

    • Anonymous September 3, 2013 at 7:25 pm #

      @Space Jesus, I want to meet you. Cake is amazing.

  14. Taka September 5, 2013 at 9:34 am #

    the friendzone is a zone where you put non-romantic interests who are actually nice people whom you’d love to hang out with, but just happen to not be sexually or romantically attractive to you. friendzoning someone is to place a person in this personal zone of yours. being friendzoned is very often to be told that “you’re such a good friend” before you even get the chance to confess your romantic interest in the person, but it’s not always that easy to get the point and some don’t realize they’ve been friendzoned.

    some people mistake friendzoning for rejection. it’s not the same, really. yes, they’ve been unknowingly friendzoned as well before the rejection, but they are two different acts. some girls (and guys/others too, actually) try to indirectly tell a person that they’re in her (his/their) friendzone, without the person picking up on the hints.

    i can understand the frustration in finding out that one has been friendzoned without realizing because one was too blinded by one’s own infatuation, but… that does not justify a guy’s bitching about a woman who friendzoned him despite his efforts (mostly unwanted by her) to get her attention. love can’t be bought, so it’s really a pretty dumb logic that she has an obligation when she never promised anything at all. those guys should be ashamed of themselves, whoever they are. i don’t think i know too many of them personally.

    and while i’m talking about those few a-holes who bitch about being friendzoned, this is probably because of their own insecurities. just think about how society has construed a need for guys to be sexually attractive to all women. failing at being attractive probably makes for a lot of anxiety that is most easily masked by anger.

    don’t attack the friendzone. it kind of exists, and everybody friendzones others from time to time (even girls have been friendzoned by other girls, try to guess how much that hurts). instead attack the social constructs that give rise to the stupidest insecurities. why does a guy have to feel like he failed at something important just because he couldn’t get the woman who seemed to (and probably did) like him (as a friend)? it’s like being that peacock with too few feathers who was approached/not shunned by a female, just to discover she only treated him like another female (speaking in heteronormative terms for simplicity).

    feminism is a good thing, but only when attacking the right problem. yes, the word friendzone has been used by sexists, but no, that doesn’t mean the phenomenon itself is of a sexist character (as i said anyone can be friendzoned by anyone, and people are usually not hurt by being friendzoned by someone who they also friendzoned).

  15. alex September 13, 2013 at 6:59 pm #

    men often want sex from women and when they are involved in hangin out with a girl/woman and spending a certain amout of time with her is usually because they want a sexual relationship. it’s not about pretending sex is a right owed to you, is more like deciding if that friendship is worth being cultivated if it’s likely to turn into sex and romantic bond because that’s what men usually want. it would be disingenuous to think otherwise: think about pre-pubescent boys that are not much into playing with little girls their age. they see them as annoying and boring but when puberty kicks in all of a sudden they start seeing girls as interesting.

  16. allthedots October 6, 2013 at 12:12 am #

    The whole “nice guy” argument is just a twisted way for certain misogynistic asscracks to justify abuse and/or violence against women. I have perused more comments of this nature than I should have. They usually go something like this: “Girls love to be treated like crap, so I might as well.” The whole ‘nice guys finish last’ cliché is constructed by these assholes. No genuinely nice person would ever question being nice, because they have morals and ethics and stuff.

    • I call bs October 6, 2013 at 3:05 pm #

      Typical of a woman to cry misogyny when a man reveals sex as a desire. The fact is that men want sex. From women. Period. Its not good or bad. It just is. Many decent guys are finding out that showing genuine kind hearted interest in a woman will gain friendship, but not sex. Who gets sex? Jerks do. So we will be jerks. Because sex is what we want. No, your friendship is not the most special thing to us. There are a million of you we can be friends with. You can keep calling reality sexist if you want, but I don’t think reality cares what you think.

      • allthedots October 7, 2013 at 2:02 pm #

        This comment just proved my point.

      • Mikey October 9, 2013 at 8:15 pm #

        I’m a guy. I like sex, I won’t lie, but that’s not all women are good for. I have a great number of confidants who are women, who I haven’t slept with yet nor am I lying in wait for it to happen. Funny story though, when you don’t try to connive your way into sex it’s more likely to occur. I actually somewhat agree with ‘Nice guys’ that sex is always a persistent tension between men and women. But sex is all about trust. People who are ‘Nice Guys’ don’t communicate a lot of trust.

      • I call bs October 10, 2013 at 9:32 am #

        Sounds ideal. Isn’t like that for the majority of guys. And surely its their own fault or whatever. Bottom line: they can cry about it, or they can adapt and become jerks to get laid a lot more. Shallow? Tough. Its life

  17. Mikey October 9, 2013 at 8:12 pm #

    If you believe the friend zone is a thing, maybe I would agree it’s harsh to label that person a jerk or a misogynist, but they very well may be socially inept.

    Someone else said it first, but you have sex with or date people you intend on possibly having sex with because you are sexually attracted to them. They could be covered head to toe in tattoos, look like snagglepuss and have a 2 inch wee-wee, and if that’s what gets that person off, that’s what gets them off.

    Friendship is entirely different, but not a mutually exclusive concept. Sometimes a person is really cool, but not sexually attractive. They’ll end up being your friend. Sometimes a person is sexually attractive, with the personality of a troll. They’ll probably end up as some hump and dump, or just be a really bad romantic partner. Sh** happens. And on rare occasions you’ll find that guy or girl who is both your best friend and an awesome lover.

    The problem with people who believe in ‘the friendzone’ is they assume love necessarily means dating, or sex, or a relationship. You probably love a lot of people you wouldn’t sleep with for various reasons. Doesn’t mean you love them any less.

    • allthedots October 14, 2013 at 4:45 pm #

      Hi Mikey:

      I appreciate your input. I will try a hand at clarifying my first comment. I wasn’t claiming that a guy was a misogynist just for wanting to have sex. I was referring to some comments I have seen on blogs and forums where I felt a lot of men (I am assuming they are men) rationalized violence/abuse against women using the “nice guy” myth (Yes, I consider it a myth.) I honestly feel that their primary goal is to rationalize violence, not to defend “nice guys”, and thus goes deeper than just petty dating politics.

  18. Anna Eldrid October 27, 2013 at 1:32 pm #

    Good article. I think the myth stems from cultural expectations that women basically don’t have any sexuality of their own, that they are supposed to get romantically interested in men based on their attributes: personality, character, looks, wealth, and that once those things are ‘right’ the sex will follow.

    This assumption also implies that women can be sexual with any guy because for them it is ‘about personality’, that romantic attraction essentially does not have a sexual component for the woman from the start, that it will follow ‘naturally’.

    There is no place for female sexual attraction in this whole model. Since women are supposed to be attracted to personality attributes it is understandable that a guy who in his opinion has those personality attributes will get upset when he is rejected. But he gets rejected because there is no sexual chemistry for the woman! This does not seem to enter the equation at any point in the whole idea. The model is sexist because it presupposes that women don’t have any sexual attractions of their own. It is the myth of the ‘asexual whore’, one that can have sex with any man, but who does not have sexual desires of her own.

  19. Ladyfriend November 5, 2013 at 9:40 am #

    This article speaks the truth. Friendzone for the most part is pretty much bullshit by so called REAL JERKS who only see women as sexual objects and can’t accept rejection, and the other types of so called fake nice guys are geeky social awkward guys who believe in movies where the nerdy geeky guy gets the hot sexy girl because he is ‘nice’ and all woman want is just someone who is nice. (right?) and they reject and ignore the geeky girls because despite them living in their mothers basement they still believe they have the right to have a high standard. Just look at some of the comments on this article which proves the point that the whole friend zone bullshit is just a cover for jerks, bitter men, sexist pricks and men that forget women also look for a partner they can connect with, have sexual desire, have things in common, share the same ideals and/or beliefts ect. These men just can’t stand the fact that women have a choice to say no. That is something they just can’t stand. Other men good men on the other hand are already dating a lovely girl, are married or are just not pushing their crush into guilt tripping them to get laid.

  20. escurio0990 November 9, 2013 at 10:53 pm #

    Reblogged this on Bleed. and commented:

  21. Trying to be a nice guy November 10, 2013 at 9:53 am #

    So what, guys are supposed to just sit still and stay friends, and watch while the girl they’ve fallen for goes around the block with other guys? I think you’re making the mistake of dismissing all men who fall into the ‘friendzone’ as only wanting to be nice while they think sex is still possible. While certainly some guys do do that (girls do as well), it’s shallow to think that friendzoned guys don’t enjoy the friendship- quite the opposite most of time: they’re often afraid to make things awkward by admitting their feelings.

    Of course women are entitled to say no, and guys are in no way entitled to anything from a woman, but to say that all friendzoned guys think they’re owed something for their kindness is simply untrue. I agree many guys use the term in sexist ways, but what other word is there for the situation where a guy is forced to watch the girl he likes make out with another guy at a party, and he can’t just exit his friendship with her, because he doesn’t want to be a dick?

    Also, I’m in no way saying it’s the girls fault that a guy feels that way either, in fact there’s only fate to blame.

    • Lucy November 14, 2013 at 7:18 pm #

      ” but what other word is there for the situation where a guy is forced to watch the girl he likes make out with another guy at a party, and he can’t just exit his friendship with her, because he doesn’t want to be a dick?”

      How about: “extremely immature guy”

      • Trying to be a nice guy December 8, 2013 at 9:51 pm #

        Extremely immature? In what way is that extremely immature? If anything, it’s very mature, because he’s not being a sore loser and ending the friendship because of this unfavourable circumstance.

        Don’t try to make it seem like there’s no victim here, because as slight as it may seem to you, it hurts.

  22. Bec Graham November 12, 2013 at 10:33 pm #

    Thank God for this post. I love this: “Friendzoning is bullshit because girls are not machines that you put kindness coins into until sex falls out.”
    But more importantly…no one ever talks about guys talking about finding “a nice girl” but end up with the gorgeous bimbo bitch just because she has a slam min’ body. This friend zoning thing goes both ways!

  23. infinite_loop November 15, 2013 at 5:28 am #

    Do you even know any male people at all? Where would you get the idea that people who as been friend-zoned demand sex? Guys don’t think women are bad people because they won’t fuck their male friends on demand if you don’t realize that you are really detached from reality.

    Friend-zone is what happens a lot to so called “niceguys” no one can blame the girls for not being attracted to them but you why bash on the guy who never learned how to attract a woman? Why is it sexist to think that some guys almost never get past being friends?

    And vice versa if a woman likes a man and he just wants to be friends but she wants more, does that make her sexist? Please reply I really want to know how someone like you thinks!

    • Trying to be a nice guy December 8, 2013 at 9:54 pm #

      Amen, brother! It’s just as unfair to generalise all men as wanting sex 24/7 from women, as it is to generalise all women for only dating “bad boys”

  24. feministsatlarge December 17, 2013 at 4:54 pm #

    NOTICE: Feminists-At-Large has made the decision to stop posting comments on this thread; any comments submitted hereinafter will not be approved. We encourage you, however, to submit full articles to the blog for posting should you like to articulate your position in a more fully constructive manner. We thank you for cooperation and continued support of FAL and feminism!


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  8. Looking for Women Representation in HBO’s Newest Series | Feminists-at-Large - January 21, 2014

    […] If the show is not supposed to have women because it is a show about gay men, then it proves that female characters can only be love interests. Gay men would never have a girlfriend or would never be romantically involved in one, so why would they be allowed a character on the show? In fact, the only woman on the show is an old romantic interest because in media logic, men and women can never just be friends. It’s the same basic logic that fuels the notion of the Friend Zone. […]


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